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GW2 Computer Crashes.

Muintir de na Iomproidh
Bonedragon
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Posted On: 10/26/2015 at 05:57 AM
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Have an odd problem and just wondering if anyone else has seen it.

 

Pretty much any time I load up gw2, within 5 - 10 minutes of playing, my computer completely shuts down.  Not just a game crash, or a reboot, but a full power down.

 

Happens across 2 different OS's (Win 7 Home, Pro, and Ultimate editions), and Windows 10.  I've done 2 full wipes of my SSD this weekend trying out different versions to make sure it wasn't just a windows 10 thing.   Will finish upgrading back to 10 after work today.

Power supply seems fine, CPO and GPU temps are all running well within acceptable values.

Tried two different sets of Video drivers, same result.

 

Tonight I think I'll try popping out memory sticks one at a time and see if it's there.  Then swap out for my wife's video card and see if that's it if the memory check doesn't work.  Any other ideas or incites would be appreciated.

 

 

ASUS 4GB GeForce GTX 760 GDDR5

32GB Ram

AMD FX-8350 Black Edition Vishera 8-Core 4.0GHz

ASUS ROG Crosshair V Formula-Z Motherboard

 

 

Bonedragon/Killasin

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Ban Seaimpin de na Aracos
Ktzala
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Replied On: 10/26/2015 at 08:05 AM PDT
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Have you checked the CPU and GPU temperatures?

Maybe the computer is overheating and that is why it is shutting down. 

 

Good luck and hope your problem gets resolved soon :) 

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Sekkerhund
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Replied On: 10/26/2015 at 10:22 AM PDT
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Sounds like a kernel mode crash (BSOD).  Check your Event logs to see what kernel mode error it is and/or what driver is causing the problem.  There's a way to verify that its a BSOD (Windows shuts down by default, you can turn that off) but, you can google for better instructions than I can give in a reasonable amount of time.

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Muintir de na Iomproidh
Bonedragon
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Replied On: 10/26/2015 at 12:59 PM PDT
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Yeah, cpu and gpu temps are all within norms, sadly.. I was hoping it was something obvious like that

 

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Muintir de na Iomproidh
Bonedragon
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Replied On: 10/30/2015 at 01:47 PM PDT
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Update, so far ruled out the video card, now systematically testing my RAM sticks.  Pulled 2 of them out, ran at 16gig for over 24 hours before the 1st crash.  Split the last pair running on 8gigs now.  So far no crashes, even during dragon event in Magumma (sp?).

 

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Seaimpin de na Capall Donn
Jace
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Replied On: 10/30/2015 at 02:11 PM PDT

MemTest that system and allow that application to tell you what is going on. Personally, I'd grab the files out of the minidump folder and analyze them. You might be running into a driver conflict. 

Since it could be a driver conflict you can run a Verifier to have it generate a crash report on the culprit.

Only problem with testing RAM in the process your using is when it's a deep root issue so if you don't find the culprit that way use the methods I suggested above.

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Sekkerhund
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Replied On: 10/31/2015 at 08:43 AM PDT
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Again, check the Event log.  By default, Windows is configured to Write an event to the system log + Write debugging information, then Automatically restart Windows (its in System Properties > Startup and Recovery settings). 

Personally, I'd uncheck the restart option, so there wouldn't be any error dialogues (if any occur) that are suppressed by the reboot.  That also knocks out need for most of the hardware troubleshooting.

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Muintir de na Iomproidh
Bonedragon
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Replied On: 11/02/2015 at 06:11 AM PST
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I'll be looking into finding the Event logs tonight, thanks for the suggestions.   It's not rebooting after the crash, just a hard shutdown, so hopefully there won't error log suppression.

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Jace
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Replied On: 11/02/2015 at 09:45 AM PST

Download and run this tool. 

http://www.resplendence.com/whocrashed

Report back with that it states. We can further direct you from there.

Also, please report back with what Sekkerhund suggested with the error logs as that will help narrow down the issue if the BSOD logs didn't report on the culprit. Sometimes it only states the crashing driver at the time and not the cause.

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Muintir de na Iomproidh
Bonedragon
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Replied On: 11/02/2015 at 04:32 PM PST
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Here's what I got from whocrashed.


Crash Dump Analysis


Crash dump directory: C:\WINDOWS\Minidump

Crash dumps are enabled on your computer.

No valid crash dumps have been found on your computer.

 

Oddly enough, I don't seem to have that dump directory when I go look for it in the file system.

 

 

I did manage to find the Event Viewer, and I 'think' this is the error that correlates to the shutdown.

The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first. This error could be caused if the system stopped responding, crashed, or lost power unexpectedly.

Source:  Kernel-Power

Event ID:  41

Level: Critical

user: System

Task Category (63)

 

Forgive my newbieness, never had to troubleshoot at this level before... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Seaimpin de na Capall Donn
Jace
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Replied On: 11/03/2015 at 09:12 AM PST

That’s fine from what it’s telling me it appears that your system is crashing but not related to a BSOD, while the screen might be blue it’s not a fatal system error.

Here is a list of possible issues:

  • Bad Ram
    • Memtest will point this out
  • Bad PSU
    • The energy report will point this out but I need more information
  • Dirty Power / Undervoltage
    • Buy a new surge protector and try using that
  • Overheating issue to one or more parts
    • We will need to gather logs

So let’s begin.

Bad Ram

  1. Go to http://www.memtest.org/ and download the appropriate file for your system.
  2. Run that for at least 6 passes.
    1. Yes I know it takes a long time but we need to get a good test on this so let it run over night.
    2. Think of the RAM warming up and we want it to be stressed and used so 6 is a good number for testing.
    3. Generally you will find issues in the first ten minutes but I’ve seen some hard items show up on the 6th
  3. Report back with what you find.

Bad PSU

  1. On your desktop hit the “windows key” and then type “cmd” HOLD ON! Before you continue please right click on the CMD icon that is now found and click on “Run as Administrator”
  2. In that new box type “powercfg –energy” that will generate a report for me.
  3. Go to c:\windows\system32 and grab the file “Energy-report.html” and drag that to your destop.
  4. Private message me the contents of that file.
    1. What I’m looking for here is any information about the load of your system and what that PSU is reporting on.
    2. This will help me a bit to diagnose the PSU and it’s issues.
  5. Answer the following questions
    1. What model is your PSU and wattage
    2. How long have you had this PSU?
    3. Does your system shutdown only under heavy load?
    4. Does your system shutdown at a set interval?
    5. Do you mind purchasing a PSU tester?
      1. If you’re ok with this buy one like this
      2. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0PG0YN8260&cm_re=powersupply_tester-_-9SIA0PG0YN8260-_-Product
    6. Give me a complete parts list of what you have in your computer model numbers from your CPU to all of your disk drives.
      1. I’m checking for power load and aging of the PSU. Generally we try to get a PSU over the wattage of the system requirements and then factor in ~7-10% wattage decrease every year for the life we intend to own the PSU.

Dirty Power / Undervoltage

  1. So for dirty power this is simple just go buy a brand new surge protector that is rated high and only plug in your computer to that.
    1. Test that with just your tower plugged into it and see I the issue resolves itself.
    2. A good one is about $20 in most cases
  2. For Undervoltage it’s going to be a bit harder to fix however we can test it by getting a multimeter.
    1. However I suspect that a new surge protector would be the most likely cause of undervoltage here and would be fixed with the fix mentioned above.

Overheating Issue to one or more device

  1. Download a tool called HWMONITOR Link here : http://www.cpuid.com/downloads/hwmonitor/hwmonitor_1.28.exe
    1. This tool is a neat tool that brings in a large portion of temp monitors from your system into one place.
  2. Run this tool and configure it to save the logs to a file on your system.
  3. I want to see 15 mins of these logs without anything running on your system. Then I want to see a separate log of 15 mins of a game running on your system.
    1. If you can figure out the log item then I’ll take what readings you can gather while watching it for that time.
    2. Also, screenshots work too.
  4. Post them to the forum or to me privately.

Keep in mind that this can be a very long process to diagnose random issues like this but we will more than likely find out what’s going wrong. Please follow my instructions here and report back what you find so we can all jump in to help.



» Edited on: 2015-11-03 09:13:13



» Edited on: 2015-11-03 09:14:12

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Jace
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Replied On: 11/04/2015 at 07:52 AM PST

The following was provided via email:

All parts bought and installed approx. 1 Year ago

Antec DF-85 Black Steel / Plastic ATX Full Tower

ASUS ROG Crosshair V Formula-Z AM3+ AMD 990FX

AMD FX-8350 Black Edition Vishera 8-Core 4.0GHz

CORSAIR Vengeance Pro 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMY32GX3M4A1600C9R

ASUS 4GB GeForce GTX 760 GDDR5 Model ROG STRIKER-GTX760-P-4GD5

CORSAIR HX Series HX1050 1050W ATX12V

Corsair Hydro Series H80i GT High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler

Samsung SSD 840 evo 120gb (Windows 10 OS)
WD Blue 1Tb HD (holds all game files)

Looking at the provided equipment above the motherboard doesn't officially support the RAM or the SSD. While that is not a tale tale sign to be the problem that still has me a bit concerned about the firmware for the SSD and the Memtest. We will address the firmware of the SSD **AS A LAST RESORT**. The reasoning behind this is normally when we have a firmware issue the system causes a watchdog error and reports that to the error log/has a BSOD. Since you havn't have a BSOD on your system we can rule this out... for now. Also, this firmware update will likely require you to backup your data off that SSD as it will need to overwrite it through a formatting process.

**Please continue to give me information as to the result of your memtest.**

The wattage of your power supply seems to be perfectly fine. The power report didn't reveal to much however it did state a few items that I have ruled out due to your corsair link for your water cooling and for your CPU's advanced c-state power saving modes.

Provided Temps:

H80i: 38.8C
Mainboard temp: 26.0C
Motherboard CPU Temp: 40.0C
FX-8350 Temp: 33.9C
CPU Load: 2.55%
GPU: 30.0C
SSD: 28.0C
HDD: 24.0C

Your temps look good your motherboard is sitting at 40C your CPU is sitting at 33.9C and is designed to go way past that. I'd still like to see it at a higher load.



» Edited on: 2015-11-04 08:22:07

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Jace
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Replied On: 11/04/2015 at 08:24 AM PST

One extra question I have to mention here after looking at all of this data. Did you build it yourself? If so ... have you checked to see it it's not simply shorting out on something internally? One way to test this is to take out all the components and place it on a cardboard box. Then fire it up and see if the issue comes back.

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Muintir de na Iomproidh
Bonedragon
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Replied On: 11/04/2015 at 12:49 PM PST
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Yes, it is a self build.   I also did replace my power bar.  Going to move it to a different wall jack as well.   I'll see if I can't get some more temps at load tonight, as well as the Memtest.  Chasing our 9 month old has made free computer time sparse...

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Jace
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Replied On: 11/04/2015 at 01:01 PM PST

Oh trust me I understand I have a two year old and a six year old. Don't worry about taking a few days to get back with me I've been working in IT for 12 years so I've had to develop patience overtime :P

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Seaimpin de na Capall Donn
Jace
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Replied On: 11/05/2015 at 09:34 AM PST

The follow was provided outside the forum via private email:

  • Corsair Temp logs from the water cooling Corsair link module.
  • Photo taken of memtest running at Pass:0
    • Results of said memtest
  • HWMonitor Logs

Corsair Temp Logs

These logs indicate that the system was using during an IDLE and RUN style time frame. At the very most what the results show is that the internal components are heating up and cooling as expected.

The only concerning factor here is that the chipset of the motherboard is getting a tad high for my liking at 78C which is 172.8 Degrees F. Now this is well within tolerance range of the 80-100C as this is generally passively cooled and not a focus. Yet reverting your cooling fans internally to vent will stop this dead space in that region and help to cool off your components. As a general rule, it’s easier to vent than to cool heated air.

MEMTEST

The results of the memtest shows it started well and ran fine without error to PASS:7. Still without error. User stated that he’d run it one more time just to validate that the results were the same.

This indicates that generally there is nothing wrong with the RAM or the CPU. As the CPU must be heavily utilized during this test to push the RAM.

 

HWMonitor Logs

The monitor logs for this indicate different temps than the internal sensors for the corsair link. After comparing both I’ve determined that the system is running under normal expectations and thus doesn’t need much altering other than making sure all fans are set to vent with a primary intake fan in the front or rear of the case.

Looking at the voltages I didn’t have enough information to determine if they voltages were fluctuating yet at the time of the logs the voltages were well within the requirements and the regulations of the devices in question.

 

Here is what we have been able to rule out with all of these tests:

There are still cases where these devices could be the culprit however at the current testing and provided results it’s highly rare that these parts are malfunctioning. We can rule them out for now

  • BAD PSU
  • BAD RAM – Motherboard might not support current dual channel configuration still but RAM tested fine.
  • BAD CPU
  • BAD MOTHERBOARD
  • OVERHEATING OF LISTED DEVICES
    • GPU
    • CPU
    • RAM
    • MOTHERBOARD
    • SYSTEM
  • BAD SURGE PROTECTOR

So moving on here is next set of instructions:

  • Let’s determine if there is anything short circuiting the motherboard
    • Check for loose wires behind the board
    • Check for anything touching metal
    • Look for the board touching the internal case mount without the mounting screws
    • Check to make sure the back-plate is installed correctly
  • Grab me a week’s worth of the following logs
    • System Event Viewer Logs
    • Application Event Viewer Logs
  • Answer the following questions
    • Since troubleshooting this issue have you received a BSOD?
    • Since troubleshooting this issue has your system still had the problem?
    • Since troubleshooting this issue has there been any error messages?
    • Since troubleshooting this issue has there been any new symptoms?

 

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Jace
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Replied On: 11/05/2015 at 08:18 PM PST

I spend some time with him tonight remoted in and looking at logs and force BSOD's. From what I noticed this seems like a PSU in the process of failing. 

I'm about 98% sure that even that I originally ruled it out the symptoms are accuring more and more and faster. While the increased shutdowns continue the voltages are still showing fine and I was not able to use a PSU tester on it yet. He has one on order.

However I'm fairly certain now that the PSU is the main fault as there are not logs that indicate any other hardware fault or software fault of any kind and all tests show other devices as good.

He will purchase a new PSU tomorrow and let me know the results.

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Muintir de na Iomproidh
Bonedragon
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Replied On: 11/08/2015 at 12:08 PM PST
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After dropping in a new PSU, still had the same crashes.  Took the next step and picked up a new case, and a new MB.

Attached the new PSU to the new MB, using my existing GPU, Ram, and CPU.  Went back to the stock CPU cooler for ease of install.  Also used existing SSD for my os and regular HD for storage/games.

 

So far everything has been running smoothly.  I was able to get 7 levels on my revenant so far this morning without a single crash, and even got some play time with the wife!!

 

Massively huge thanks to everyone's ideas and willingness to help, and an especially heartfelt thanks to Escaflownae and his patience in walking me through finding all the information that would actually help troubleshoot the problem.   

Going to play as much as I can for the rest of today, but it seems to be holding steady.

 

Thanks again everyone!

 

 

 

 

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Jace
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Replied On: 11/09/2015 at 08:59 AM PST

Glad your up and running now. Let us know if you need anything else. Power problems can be kind of hard to isolate without the proper local tools.

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Sekkerhund
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Replied On: 11/10/2015 at 12:32 AM PST
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Sorry, been busy.

Hm.  Power state crash.  Interesting. 

Try turning off Sleep and Hibernate, you can find instructions for your operating system on Google (which is most likely why the issue went away with your new motherboard), but go ahead and do that to avoid any more possible issues.  You don't need those features on a desktop, especially a gaming desktop.

Generally, that problem happens when there is a conflict with the motherboard BIOS and the graphics card when you try to play a graphically intensive game.  GW2's new expansion puts some extra load on the system, so ... probs why this started happening.

Glad to hear its resolved.



» Edited on: 2015-11-10 00:35:25

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Seaimpin de na Capall Donn
Jace
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Replied On: 11/10/2015 at 08:24 PM PST

Thats why we are here.. to help those we call friends and family.

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